"I never lose, I win or I learn" - Nelson Mandela From being a Special Forces Officer to starting a successful brewing company to being the CEO of Objective Arete, Greg has learned many of life's lessons through failure. When one views failure as a mechanism to become legendary, they can become legendary.
"I never lose, I win or I learn" - Nelson Mandela
From being a Special Forces Officer to starting a successful brewing company to being the CEO of Objective Arete, Greg has learned many of life's lessons through failure. When one views failure as a mechanism to become legendary, they can become legendary.
Full Guest Bio:
Greg Walker is the owner and operator of Hatchet Brewing Company, a craft brewery in Southern Pines, North Carolina. He is also the co-founder of Objective Arete LLC, a veteran-owned self-development company.
He is a veteran, having served as an infantry and special forces officer in the United States Army. He Graduated from the United States Military Academy (West Point) and was awarded the Bronze Star Medal, Ranger Tab, Special Forces Tab, and Combat Infantryman’s Badge.
He holds a Bachelor’s Degree from the United States Military Academy in Chemical Engineering. He recently applied to Duke’s MBA program to continue his journey of learning and self-development.
Contact: Greg@objectivearete.com
Mike Lerario is a United States Army West Point Graduate and holds a Master Degree in Leadership. He was an Army officer who served with distinction for over 20 years. He helped create the Army's Asymmetric Warfare Group, the Wexford Group, is a researcher for RAND and is the CEO of Crispian Consulting. He has written two bestselling books "Leadership in Balance" and "Management in Balance."
Contact: mike@objectivearete.com
Show Producer: Chuck Ritter
Mike: Hello and welcome. I'm Mike Lerario, your host for episode three of Objective Arate. And today our guest is Greg Walker, who among other things is one of the founders of Objective Arate. And we're going to talk about his journey, how he got to where he is today. And honestly, if you, uh, if you wanted to have a quotation that best represents this episode, it's Nelson Mandela's, I never lose, I win, or I learn.
So let's get into it. Episode three.
Greg Walker. Greg, how you doing? Good. How are you, Mike? It's good to see you again. Hey, so let's talk about like at the beginning. Where, when and where were you? When you first started to think and learn and grow about life and yourself and just being a human being
Greg: I think most of the Memories when I reflect on this and I think about the developmental Experience that in life it kind of starts like around the high school time frame It's not a little earlier in my early life.
Like my grandfather was just a very strong influence on me So I grew up his background. He was uh, he was in World War two. He was a Ball turret and a port waist gunner in the B 24 Liberator and did a lot of the, uh, the bombing runs, frankly, for the pre Normandy invasion. And so I grew up listening to these stories from him, which in retrospect were very, very harrowing, but he always told them with a such a strong sense of humor that I never took them that way.
And so that was one of those. Experiences I look back on when I think of what has guided me, um, and what I use as an example for what a strong fatherly figure or patriarch really looks like he was just a very impressive man still in my mind, but he. He tells stories from World War II, when he first got the squadron, he, he was ball turret and I, uh, port waist gunner, he got there as a ball turret gunner, and he said he was there for a month, and the casualties were so high in the ball turrets because of the landing gear failures, because they were actually being targeted by the Luftwaffe, because they were the most casualty inflicting weapon system on the B 24s in that area for the, the fighters of the Nazi regime.
They, they ended up saying, hey, we're going to pull them all out. And so they ripped all the ball turrets out of the B 24s, and then he trained to be a port witch.
Mike: Left side of the airplane, that's the
Greg: port, okay. Yeah, yeah, sorry, left side of the airplane as it's, as it's flying. And he would talk about, hey, knowing the aircraft.
Like he read that manual multiple times. And that way, whenever there was a malfunction in the air, he was, he was kind of the guy that they would go to and he would go fix it. And so that, that in and of itself was just that lesson of self reliance. And being valuable, being useful to, to a team of people.
Mike: What was his background? Like, what was he doing before World War II that he was like, you know, could be that adaptable?
Greg: So he had a very, uh, mechanical mind, I would say. He started off, he actually just got out of high school and was drafted. And so he went, he didn't really have a career or anything before he went into the war.
But after the war, he ended up going back to St. Louis, where we're all from in Missouri. And he became an industrial mechanic. So he worked on industrial equipment. And he actually had, I think, the record for the test that you take to qualify you for that, that skill set. He had the record for that for like 15 years after that.
And it is interesting when you think about it. He didn't have a college education. He was still an intelligent person and was very good with his hands. And that's one of the things I loved. Is he would always like he did a lot of woodworking, so he would always have myself, my cousins and my sister in there, and he was always very safe about it, but he would do woodworking and share that kind of craft and hobby with us, which is also just a wonderful memory to have.
Mike: So, okay, I'm hearing in these stories like a couple of things. One is personal example. Right? Like his personal example of being someone who's adaptable and being someone who is a survivor. I mean, honestly, as an example for you growing up, what about that experience in your relationship with your grandfather?
What do you think you drew from that ultimate? Where did that take you?
Greg: I think it taught me that because he had a lot of challenges in his life, especially when I look back on it, like it's hard to truly imagine what It meant to get drafted in that time. Yeah. Because we don't have How old was he
Mike: when he got drafted?
Greg: He was 18. Ironically, my great grandfather, his father fought in World War II, but he was an immigrant from Hamburg, Germany. So my great grandfather immigrated from Germany, and then four or five years later found himself fighting in World War I against the country he just came from. So we still have some distant cousins, or distant relatives, in Hamburg.
But it's hard to fathom that now. We live in an environment where We have social media, we have such good communication and technology that you would know as soon as something happened. Like, I still remember being deployed, but people had to control Facebook because they didn't want the information to get out to the family if something had happened to somebody.
They didn't have that back then. And so they were looking at the paper and hoped they would get an update, but that was really all they had to go on. So there's a lot of, like, self sufficiency, a lot of self reliance.
Mike: What other influences in your early life, uh, led you to
Greg: Well, I do think a lot of it really was my grandfather and listening to some of his war stories and the way that he would tell them with such a strong sense of humor, like there were these, frankly, very dark stories of in his squadron, a friend of his was also a port waste gunner.
The starboard gunner was decapitated with flak. And he talks about that in almost this comedical fashion, which I still struggle to articulate today. But he talks about that. And then the guy got his wallet stolen when they went out. The following weekend, and he couldn't care less. It's
Mike: long been a staple coping mechanism of certainly the military and folks who deal with really horrific things.
Yeah. I mean, was it your experience in the army that did it take you like serving in combat in Afghanistan to figure out, Oh, yeah, now I get it. The laughing about it, the comedic telling of the story was a coping mechanism.
Greg: I don't know if it took that long. I got a lot of that, I think, at West Point. You kind of find humor, one, in being with a great group of people, but those shared hardships.
Like, you, you learn to, it is a coping mechanism, but you learn to find joy in it, frankly, by joking about it. Yeah, everybody has a nickname, everybody's got a story, right? Everybody makes a mistake, and people don't necessarily forget, but they're also, it's not the end of the world either. Right,
Mike: yeah, I love that, uh, after seeing a friend or being on an airplane where a friend loses his head to anti aircraft fire, losing your wallet is pretty minor stuff.
Greg: Very. It was a different time back then. He talks about coming back off a mission and they used to do, you used to see the doctor, right? To do your post flight medical examination, which is very brief. And then you walk to the next table and it was shots. Yeah, obviously they don't do that anymore.
Mike: But a good American whiskey.
Greg: Yeah.
Mike: None of that British stuff.
Greg: Different way of coping with the, you know, the stressors of combat.
Mike: Yeah. We, uh, ended all that with Desert Storm. Anyway, that's a story for another day, but, you know, punishing everybody en masse ahead of time so no one person makes a mistake. Right. Like there. Anyway. So, um, how old were you when you were, when you were watching your grandfather and hearing these stories,
Greg: as long as I can remember, I remember six or seven.
I grew up in a very family oriented environment where I spent weekends with my cousins and I saw my grandparents almost every week. Yeah, I'm really grateful for it. They were just such a positive influence on me. And like I said, it's just a very vicarious way of learning what it like how to learn.
Thank you. How relationships work, what it means to be, try to be a good friend or a good cousin. And now having those relationships that have followed me throughout life that I find totally invaluable.
Mike: So this, you know, extended family, obviously there's a, that's a metaphor perhaps too, for, you know, uh,
Greg: I mean, they were, they're stubborn.
It's funny. I still think of them and they're, they're kind of like big dogs, like they're, they can be friendly, but they have their own personalities. And, um, we'd have, especially if you didn't name
Mike: any of them, did you? Like we did, we learned that
Greg: the hard way, my sister and I named some. That didn't go the way we probably wanted it to.
And so they would, I mean the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. So they would push. And so, I remember one morning waking up before school with my dad. It happened to be cold, it was the middle of winter. And uh, we went out there and we were repairing the fence with wire. We had gloves, but with the gloves you couldn't, you couldn't get the wire tight.
So you had to take your gloves off. And, I remember my dad walking back from that after a couple hours of work, just putting fences back together and chasing cattle back into the pasture. We're walking back and I noticed his hand, like he was dripping blood from his hand and he never said a word about it, but it showed me that it didn't matter.
Like at the end of the day, we have a job to do and it doesn't matter if it, it's going to be painful. There's going to be challenges, still something you need to accomplish. And to this day, he's still one of the hardest workers I think I know. And so I really think that I took that. Lesson from him and a lot of that farm life.
Mike: I think that, uh, more than anything anybody says to us, the way they make us, the Maya Angelou, right? You know, not how you, what you say to people, it's how you make them feel. I mean, I think that story about watching your dad is indicative of the idea that how people can make us feel will have a greater impact.
And so, clearly, Seems to me you learned about work ethic from what your dad was showing you. I imagine he didn't talk to you about, about it after.
Greg: No, he was always, he's very much a performer and he expected that out of my sister and I. And so he, he expected us to get good grades. He expected us to take care of ourselves, take care of the house and that type of thing.
He never sat me down and said, Hey, to be a successful adult, this is, you have to have a good work ethic. And neither did my grand, like my grandfather, my mother. And looking back, I think the reason those lessons stick with me today is because they didn't do that. They showed me instead of
Sponsors: telling me.
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Greg: Cool. And any other influences growing up? There were a lot. Honestly, my principal, um, was a phenomenal leader.
I think I learned a lot of things from him. Leadership lessons just from vicariously seeing him and how he managed things. I had some great teachers. Wait, you're a school principal? You must have been in detention
Mike: a lot
Greg: School principal. Believe it or not. I was a pretty obedient kid, but he I'm gonna jump ahead
Mike: then real quick and ask you how many hours you walked on the area at west pointe About 10.
Greg: Okay. Yeah. Not horrible. Not good, but that I don't play the guys that walked in the hundreds. So you're doing good. It's funny how that works. And I know we're going to talk about that, but there are a lot of lessons there too about consequences, but I was never really in shape. I was, I was like maybe what, five to, uh, when I got to high school and 140, 150 pounds.
And so I was. Not in great shape, wanted to do soccer and partake in activities like that.
Mike: Described yourself more as the ball.
Greg: People lived. Yeah. That exposed me to something I just hadn't been exposed to before. And so we had lived on a farm. Our driveway was about a quarter mile long. And so I just started doing sprints just like they did in the ago.
And so I would do that. One day would be one sprint and then over time that turned into two and three and push ups and like just getting into shape and taking ownership of that in that developmental period of my life looking back, it was a positive feedback loop. It was one of those things where you embrace the adversity of the moment so that you get the outcome you're ultimately looking for.
And so I feel like that was the lesson I took from that was I do have some control over my life, maybe nothing else, but I can control myself. And so if I'm willing to put in the effort, then I can improve my position and be the kind of person I want to be. And so that was the lesson I think I took from that, which looking back was somewhat of the foundation for me even being able to apply to West Point and be healthy as a human, like as an adult.
Mike: Was it safe to say that, uh, Steven Pressfield's Gates of Fire was the catalyst to get you into a life in the army and going to West Point?
Greg: Absolutely. In retrospect, it did play a huge role. Because that was, we'll say, the first domino in a series that brought me to that end state, that outcome. It was getting into shape, and then that led me to taking a class on weightlifting in high school.
And so then I got into weightlifting, and then Let's again talked about my grandfather, but I always had this. I don't know if it's an allure, but like I was interested in the military career path and what they did, and it was something I believed in,
Mike: which is generally a calling, right? I mean, I think that's one of the things that we could still say.
I think it's it certainly is part of the definition of a profession. Is a higher calling. And so the profession of arms was calling you with your grandfather and whatever Steven Pressfield wrote into gates of fire, which is a brilliant book. You, you heard your calling.
Greg: Yeah. And so then that led me to apply to West point.
It led me to join the army, which is what I did first. I joined as a, uh, in the reserves as a medic. And so I did that for, I went to basic training between my junior and senior year, and that went fairly well. And I liked the culture. I felt. Like it fit and it made sense to me on. So then I applied to West Point and then I got picked up to go to West Point.
My senior year, uh, and so I transferred from reserves to, to West Point, which is technically active duty.
Mike: It is active duty. It absolutely is active duty, which is a killer to me. Like, you know, I've started referring to my services 27 years because the four years at West Point, I was in uniform and I was on active duty.
It just didn't count towards retirement as same with
Greg: you. 100%. And then, so I got, I had the unique experience of being able to go to basic training again. Cadet basic training. Yeah. Yeah. So, I got to check that block twice.
Mike: Okay, but why West Point? I mean like you're, so your grandfather was in the Army Air Corps, but did you think about going to the Air Force Academy or the Naval Academy?
Greg: Leadership. Like I, what I really, what resonated with me so strongly about the profession of arms was that aspect of leadership. And that's where I felt like my, I'll say my calling was, like my purpose. And so instead of where the Air Force is very focused on equipment and aircraft, and it is a cool culture because the officers that are actually the ones that fight, right, they're the ones that are, we'll say, executing things.
Mike: Frontline more, more often than not. Right. Unless you're a CCT or. PJ. Yeah.
Greg: Right. And maybe it's just more cultural, but that was kind of the way I looked at it. I said, Hey, I would rather be responsible for leading people. Well, that was what I kind of want to do with my life. And so that's why West Point had such more like such a draw to me and the army in general.
Mike: Good on you for figuring that out as an 18 year old kid, man. For me, it was like I was, I grew up in Maryland. The Naval Academy was what I knew because my dad was a football coach. Former coaches of his, there was always somebody coaching at the Naval Academy that coached with my dad. And so we, when people would come into town to visit, we'd go to the Naval Academy.
And so growing up, I was like, Oh, I'm going to go to the Naval Academy. And then somewhere in high school, I realized, Oh, I don't want to have anything to do with being on a boat for six months, let alone six days. You know, like, well, what else can I do? And so that's, that's what led me to West Point. But I had none of those thoughts about officers and leadership.
So I just wanted to be a soldier. Cool. So you go to West Point, uh, what year was that?
Greg: I went in 2004 and then I graduated in 2008, and that was another very developmental experience for me. So post 9 11, that's another aspect, right? I remember we went, when I was in basic training, we announced that we were invading Afghanistan.
And so the drill sergeants made that announcement and everybody Responded positively to it.
Mike: You really make me feel old now because I was a battalion commander. Actually, I was, I was done with battalion command when you entered West Point. Okay. So, uh, we've established that I'm old and you're not. Okay.
So you get to West Point. Do you know anything about West Point other than the fact that it's like the Army's military Academy when you get there?
Greg: So my grandfather remarried, and my step grandmother, she was married before to a West Point graduate. And so she Did he have a
Mike (2): horse?
Greg: He wanna, I wouldn't, Chuck Ritter's gonna wanna know.
He was horseless. He was horseless? Okay. No horse that I, that I recall. But she would tell me stories a little bit about that, and um, she just spoke very highly of it. Because of the, and not because of the curriculum, but because of the, the kind of quality of character that it seemed to develop. It, again, it just resonated with me.
It's like, this is the kind of person I want to be. This is the path that fits me. And so, that's why I, I guess I was so focused on that. That outcome, uh, after high school, I applied to some local colleges too, and that would have been a great option as well. But luckily I was accepted to West Point. And so that's where I went.
Mike: Well, so as you, as you reflect back on it, four years at the United States Military Academy, what are some of your biggest lessons learned that stay with you today? I
Greg: think some of those are. Those are more explicit than the ones we were discussing before. I think that I learned things there a little bit more overtly.
And so like, I remember you talked about hours. I remember I had to walk hours because our yuck year. So obviously your first year, you're not allowed to leave at all. And then your sophomore year, your yuck year, you can go out on the weekends, but you have to be back by like 10 o'clock because that's your curfew.
We went out with a couple of buddies and we went and saw a movie. Is the prestige, which turned out to be a lot longer than we had planned.
Mike: I, I don't know that I've ever seen that movie, but it doesn't sound like a great movie that, that, uh, 18 or 20 year old young men would want to go watch.
Greg: It's not bad, but when your reference point is nothing, it was a, it was a good movie.
Mike: Were there naked breasts in the movie?
Greg: Not that I remember. Then it was a waste of time. Yeah, you're probably right. But it was good enough where we were in the middle of it and we realized it was going I remember my buddy looking over me and like tapping his watch and We were just like, all right, we're going to be late.
It wasn't much of a conversation. We obviously get back. We're late. We get in trouble. Uh, we have to see our TAC officer. We have to walk hours, the whole nine yards. But at the end of the day, it was a great lesson in consequences, because we made that decision even in the moment. We're like, hey, we could leave now.
We're not going to. We won't know how it turns out. And so, all right, we're going to eat it. Like, yeah, this next 30 to 45 minutes is going to cost us 10 hours of our life later in full uniform walking around. In the, uh, the area, Karen of M14, if
Mike: only you'd known that in in 2024 on Netflix, you could probably pull up that movie in an instant and see how it goes.
Greg: Yeah, we might have made a different decision. Yeah, but it was a great lesson in consequences. And I do think West Point reiterates that over and over again. It teaches you it's not so much a moral thing. It's saying, Hey, yeah. Understand the consequences of your decision before you make that decision so that you're making a good decision or one that you want the outcome of.
Mike: Absolutely. I was back there as a tactical officer mid career and, uh, I think, I've got some great, I think they're great stories of some of my cadets and going through consequences with them. And my objective as a tactical officer was always to treat my cadets like they were soldiers, not like they were college students.
I think that that's, because that's the environment you're going to go into following that, right? But that's what West Point's all about. As much as the education is there, the consequences of your action, everything from who you hang out with, what kind of team you're on, that's the beauty of, uh, four years at the Military Academy.
So you only had to walk 10 hours for that, huh?
Greg: Luckily, yeah.
Mike: Yeah, I might have slugged you more.
Greg: You seem like that kind of guy, but it was a great lesson because then now I'm, I'm looking, it was a paradigm shift for me because I'd grown up very obedient. I wanted to be a good son and a good student and do what I was told.
And maybe this isn't something to be proud of, but it took me until college to really realize I have to make my own decisions. And to do that, I have to weigh the consequences and to weigh them, I need to at least understand what they are. And I do, I'm grateful that West Point taught me that lesson, that and my, my, my peers, my, my friends that were there.
Because I didn't have that, I wasn't exposed to that for whatever reason growing up, before then.
Mike: So you graduated and you were commissioned in the infantry? I was. And how long were you an infantry officer before you became an SF
Greg: officer? I want to say three to four years? Right around, it's, it's great because obviously you get picked up and then you go through a two year course.
Sure, right, a session. Because then when I went through, we still had to go to the maneuver captain's career course, so that was a lengthy bit of time at Fort Benning.
Mike: Did you go to selection and accession for special forces before the advanced course? Before uh, captain's career course?
Greg: So I, that was my deal with the battalion commander, who was an awesome guy, but I wanted, originally I wanted to go to uh, ranger regiment.
And he, and I remember going through ranger school right after I graduated college. And I remember telling myself, I'm never doing this again. Uh, I remember, I'm not doing selection, I'm not doing SUT, and then fast forward. So we were part of the MTT, the mobile training teams, uh, when I first got to Fort Riley, Kansas.
And then we transitioned to a combat action or a combat arms battalion. Mixed infantry and armor. There was no plan for us to deploy, and then we came up on the patch chart. With like 90 days notice.
Mike: Screwing that up six ways to Sunday. So this is like, what, 2009? That was
Greg: 2000. And so we, ironically, the CAV unit that hadn't gone through that transition, they were a CAV unit as long as, well, for a longer period of time.
So they were on deployable status longer. They got picked up first to go. And so they didn't have a mortar platoon. So our mortar platoon was pulled from us and then attached to them, and they deployed about a year before we did, six months before we did. Well, here we are, we come up on the patch chart to deploy, and we don't have a mortar platoon.
And so, uh, I got pulled from my XO position by the battalion and company commander, and then we made a mortar platoon out of, uh, two squads from different platoons in our company. And so we did deploy about a month late, but that was That was a good experience because I got thrown into this thing and to
Mike: Afghanistan or Iraq.
Greg: It was Afghanistan We went to Kandahar so Mewand right in the bandy So the very southern portion of and southwestern portion of Kandahar in the province of Mewand on the bandy Timor Which is like the very small river that runs through the area So it's the natural irrigation, but that's where they would grow poppy and that's where we saw a lot of importing of things from from Pakistan.
Mike: Yeah. Yeah, so You, you did a tour there as an infantry officer, mortar platoon.
Greg: Cool. And the mortar platoon was a very interesting, um, experience because It was, they brought the, so the infantry mortar leaders course, we had to all get qualified in that. So they brought that school from Fort Benning out to us and the instructors, they're like, Hey, this is the first time we've had to do this since Vietnam, but we're going to make sure you're trained.
And so we put a lot of emphasis on just doing good training and making sure people are comfortable. The last situation we want to be in is where we have to. engage with indirect fire, and we aren't 100 percent confident where those rounds are going. So, to the credit of our battalion commander and the military leadership that I fell under at the time, they gave me all the support that I, I could ask for.
Um, so I'm really grateful for that. But that was that first deployment. And so I went there, um, as a young infantry officer, and that was That was my first trip to Afghanistan.
Mike: Well, so, okay, but clearly from that is when you transitioned to special forces. Was there something on that deployment that made you want to go special forces instead of stay with the infantry?
Greg: So before we deployed and before I got put into the mortar platoon leader position, um, I had talked to our battalion commander about going to ranger regiment. So I'd been to ranger school. I made friends that were in regiment, and that was something I was interested in doing. And so I started doing the train up and started preparing for that, and he told me no.
Just straight up. He said, I'm not going to endorse you going. And he had to sign the packet, so that was a
Mike: Because he didn't want to lose you, or because he didn't like the Rangers, or did someone beat him up one time down in Savannah? I mean, what happened? It
Greg: was wonderful intentions. Like, I respect the guy a lot.
He sat me down and he said, hey, this is why. We are trying to deploy. Like, I need MTOAD, right? So technically qualified by the army people in these positions. You've been through all the training You know these people you've been here for the last two and a half years I need those kinds of officers when we go to combat So he said i'm i'm not gonna sign off on your packet to ranger uh ranger regiment but what I will do is if you Want to go to sf put in your packet for that and I will get you back and you can go straight to selection And so I was one of the first aircraft back when we redeployed and So I, I got back in late December of 2011, January of 2012.
And went straight to selection in February. I'm grateful that he, he did that. Because one, I was able to have that experience. And, and have that opportunity. And he still, I was still on a path that I wanted to be on.
Mike: Yeah. So you were fresh out of the Special Forces egg when Charles Ritter and I were hanging out in Afghanistan in 2013.
Pretty cool.
Greg: Well, that was, that was what sold SF to me, was that deployment. That Chuck
Mike: Ritter was out there somewhere?
Greg: Well, 3314 was in our AO. And so, ironically, when I got to third group, I bumped into a bunch of guys I met there. I even bumped into some of them. They were, uh, they were instructors in the Q Corps.
Ironically, then again, to the credit of my battalion commander, because it was his battle space, SF was there doing missions and running underneath their own, their own intent. But because they're in our battle space. The SF team had to work with our battalion. And so he talked to Dan Hayes, the team leader from 3214 and said, Hey, I've got these, uh, it was me and two other guys that are trying to go to selection after we get back from deployment.
Would you be willing to take them out to your MSS and let them just work with you? Right. I'm sorry. It's your. Your camp and let them work with you for a week or two at a time. And Dan was like, yeah, 100%. And so that's cool. It was fantastic. I was like, this is exactly what I want to do. Like, it's a decentralized team where everybody has the role.
Everybody is helping each other. But at the same time. You have your own area of expertise that you're trying to be the best that you possibly can be. Sounds like the
Mike: components of intrinsic motivation to me.
Greg: Yeah,
Mike: it could be. Part of a team, confidence, making choices. Cool. So, okay. So you, we, we've established the fact that you were a Green Beret and that you went into special forces.
How long were you, were you a SF before you got out of the army?
Greg: I want to say four or five years. I, so I, I got to group in Late 14, and I deployed, uh, I got to the 3rd Battalion, and luckily, we were deploying in a week, and so I actually deployed a week late. I took two weeks to transition from the Q course, move out of my house, put all my stuff in storage, and then we deployed two weeks after I graduated the Q course.
Met the battalion in Afghanistan, I was the battle captain there. For that trip to Afghanistan because we transitioned from the group headquarters was the one so full bird colonel and they did all the headquarter stuff and then they turn that over to our battalion because of the retrograde as we changed from operation during freedom to the resolute support mission.
So it was a cool experience to have because I watched. Essentially this team of like 30 or 40 people doing stuff to this team of 10. And so how do you become, how do you do that without being more efficient? Like you got to cut stuff, you got to make it simpler.
Mike: Well, it's like the, the, uh, in the NFL, you know, the, the young rookie that gets a chance to sit on the sideline with a clipboard and learn versus the guy who gets thrown in with a bad offensive line and gets beat up and broken before he has a chance.
So, you know, I mean, I bet as a battle captain of the. SFJOT, what would we call it? As a battalion, you would have been a He was a SOTUF. SOTUF, Special Operations Task Force. As a staff captain, you're probably going, damn it, I want to be with a team. I want to be out there with the boys. I want to be kicking in doors or helping the Afghans.
And yet You know, as ready as you thought you were, how much did you learn watching and being able, like that's that reflective time too, right? To be able to step back. And so does the Greg of 2024 recognize what a gift that was back in 2014, 10, 10 years ago. Holy cow.
Greg: I definitely realize it now. I'm exceptionally grateful for it because I got to see the battalion commander on a daily basis, and I got to see, honestly, the good and bad of different teams, whether it was the con ops they were sending up, so I understand what a good con op looked like, or a concept operation, so that you go on mission.
And what a bad one looked like. I saw all the reporting. 16
Mike: powerpoint slides versus 25 powerpoint slides.
Greg: Brevity was preferred. And it was, it was clear. Storyboards, all those, all those reporting things that I, I really had to do as I was personally responsible for it on the ODA. I got to see that in advance.
And so that was great. And then I found myself in a place where I was trying to kind of help these guys that are actually senior to me on like, hey, this is what the baton commander wants to see. Hey, when you're on the radio, say this, wait until you wait to hear machine gun fire. Like those little things that I would have never been exposed to helped me greatly whenever I was in that role.
And so I'm, and frankly, I feel like I've already, I'm already remiss and not mentioning this up until this point, but it was the NCOs. Like, I remember I was, technically I was a battle captain, so sure I ranked the guy sitting next to me, but he had 18 years of experience, and so he was constantly mentoring, training, supporting me, and so then I was trying to do the same thing, whether it was teaching how to type, or what they're looking for in a sitrep, and that type of thing.
And so it was another experience I'm just very grateful for, but that helped me, I think, once I got to an ODA, I think that really helped me to do my job well and try to be of value to the team.
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Mike: Yeah, I think that's certainly something that, um, you know, my best business clients recognize. It's certainly a distinction between Big Army and Army Special Operations is the value of Experience and expertise over title, right? I mean, we can pin a rank on you, we can give you a title.
You're new at some, until you're not new, you're new, right? And what you really need is somebody who knows what's going on. And so there's probably somebody in the organization who doesn't have your title, doesn't have your, um, your rank, who's been doing this a lot longer, that you can learn from. And Army Special Operations does that so well.
Where everybody recognizes that we're going to defer to experience and expertise over title and rank. Yeah, I think that's one of the best things you can get out of that experience.
Greg: And even now, I still just have this overwhelming sense of gratitude for those guys that took me aside and said, and it was gruff some of the time.
It was, it might've even been abrasive, dare you say, but it was just candid feedback that was entirely meant to benefit me. And so I really can't overemphasize how grateful I am for that kind of an influence. Because I didn't, admittedly, I know you're an officer, I was too, I didn't see that from the officer corps.
Mike: I would say that, I've always thought this, and I'm not saying this just because I want to, you know, get in Chuck Ritter's good grace, but I think one of the best things the Army ever did, was establish this structure, concept, and culture where wherever there's an officer in command anywhere, there's a non commissioned officer right there next to them, him or her, to make sure they see the entirety of perspectives, the entirety of experiences, and that together they're a team, like command is a team effort.
And so, uh, in the civilian world, you don't see that as much because there's not a real corollary to it. But I think the best organizations are those that they recognize that not all the great ideas come from the top going down. And they, they look to kind of broaden the horizons, broaden the perspectives of bringing the good ideas.
Greg: I, I don't think there's a monopoly on good ideas. I really think some of the best ideas come from the most unlikely places.
Mike: Yeah.
Greg: And so if you're closed minded, you're really closing yourself off to potential. Okay,
Mike: so you finish your career in the army. You leave and you go into the civilian world.
You're working for a company for a while. And then, what is it about? Why your own company? Why beer? Why hatchets?
Greg: So, The entrepreneurial path resonated with me because I liked the outcomes based lifestyle of it. It just seemed to, and it was very much a leadership thing. So in the same thing that brought me to West Point, the same thing that I valued from my experiences in the military, it's another leadership opportunity for me.
And so, even in the corporate world, I don't feel like I fit unless I have somewhat of a role where I'm supporting other people from, call it a leadership or management role. What really got me into, like, Hatchet, per se, was I started homebrewing whenever I was in, uh, the Maneuvering of Captains career course at Fort Benning.
And I found it to be just a, I liked it because I like chemical engineering, I liked the, I like lab. So I would treat it like a little mini experiment where, alright, these are the things that go into it at these temperatures, at these times. And you could weigh them, and you could measure them, and you could say, alright, this is good, this is bad, and like, this is how you tweak it.
I liked that aspect of it. And then that turned into a very social. Hobby, which I didn't realize, but like brewing people back. Oh, you're brewing. Oh, I that sounds cool And they would come over they would have a few beers and we would I would do most of the stuff And then they'd help clean up or they'd help throw hops in and stuff like that Which I never anticipated and so that really exposed me to what brewing is and it's very much about people.
It's not about just beer and that's what drew me to that initially plus the economics like hey, Well, I can make a, I can make five gallons of beer for 50 bucks or 30 bucks. Whereas if I tried to buy that, it'd be about a hundred. So I mean, it was like, okay, that makes sense, especially at scale. And so then that turned into a business plan, and then that turned into funding, location, et cetera.
But that was actually in the military where that kind of concept started. And it was entirely focused on the, the pragmatic reason was because of the economics made sense. But the, the value, the reason that I, I think speaks strongly to me is that it was another leadership opportunity, but also one where I felt like I was positively impacting other people.
Mike: Yeah. I mean, so again, I've, I would say that, uh, your beer, Hatchet Brewing Company has got great beer. How many people are in your under payroll right now?
Greg: Right now about 35.
Mike: 35 people. You're writing checks, you're, you're signing the front side of checks for 35 people who get to sign the backside of this check.
You're my hero, man. I mean, I swear to God. I, I like. The modern day hero is, is the entrepreneur, the business person. And thank you for doing what you're doing. So what are your greatest lessons about starting your own company? Like, what, like if you had to do it all over again, what would you do different?
Greg: I, I do feel as though this is the biggest challenge I've had in life, despite Ranger School. What are they
Mike (2): shot at? And you think that starting a beer company is, is, is got, you know, is harder or tougher?
Greg: I do, because it's It's more pernicious in nature. It's not as dogmatic, right? Like I think that the mentality that got me through a lot of the military stuff was because I was like, Hey, I could die right on this deployment.
So I need to enjoy my life now and have a plan for the future. But don't be worried about buying a jigsaw 750 and having fun on it, right? With the business stuff, it is. In many ways, more grueling because the consequences aren't as drastic. It's not life or death.
Mike: Well, yeah, but there's 35 people right now.
They're their livelihoods, not their life, but their livelihoods
Greg: are depending upon your decisions. So maybe it'd be better to say it's just different. It's not like necessarily better or worse, but it's a very different type of stress because with, there's a lot of finality with the stress of combat, right?
Like, Hey, I could not make it in which case I don't have anything to worry about, right? Like it's over.
Mike: Pain's gone. There's no pain,
Greg: but with business, it's like, man, I'm going to mess up someone like 35 people's. It's to me, it's fragile. It feels fragile, and that's a new concept for me. Like when I look at all these other businesses, especially from the outside looking in, you're like, Oh, they're busy.
Oh, they're selling so much. They have a crowd every lunch period. Like. So it must be a great restaurant. It's being behind the curtain and seeing how things go. It has given me the perspective that I now have of this really is fragile. It has, it demands my best efforts. It demands good decision. And I hope that I'm fulfilling that at the end of the day.
But I don't know. And that's where I've been, like, we've been alive for five years now. But even now, I wouldn't be able to guarantee that we're gonna be open in two months. And that's just the reality, I think, of this path, right? Of being an entrepreneur and starting a business comes with its own burden.
I didn't understand fully getting into it,
Mike: which is scary and exciting at the same time, I'd imagine,
Greg: and it's rewarding because when it works, you're like, wow. Nobody gave it to you, right? Like it's something that you and the team figured out.
Mike: Yeah. I think that's another aspect of, you know, work. So not again, and why you're one of my heroes is not only are you making payroll for 35 people, you're providing them with an opportunity to find dignity.
and value in what they do with their day and their time. I think that's so much that gets lost on people, you know, the importance of putting in a good day's work, which you learned on a farm in Missouri, you know, as a young kid. Unfortunately, we've got a lot of folks who, who they take that for granted because they've never had to do that.
But yeah, for, for your personal self and for your financial self and for your, your wellbeing, I mean, these are all things that. That meet the, uh, the parameters of, uh, objective varitae. You've been building this for a long time.
Greg: In many ways, yeah. And I, I think the overarching message is just adversity, right?
And how do you deal with adversity? You're going to, you're going to see that in life, right? People talk about PTSD, and I think that that had much more of a stigma in the past than it does now. But ultimately, I feel like everybody has traumatic incidents in life. Whether you, you're gonna lose a, a family member.
You're gonna. You're going to get fired from a job. You might go bankrupt and lose a business. But it's how you embrace that. It really is what's going to invest in your own development. Do you lose or do you learn? 100 percent.
Mike: Yeah, yeah, absolutely critical. So what's next, man? What's, what's next for Hatchet?
What's next for, what do you, what's a good flavor you're working on right
Greg: now? So we did come out with some seasonals. Believe it or not, we came out with Pineland Underground again just this month. Because that was such a
Mike (2): popular
Greg: podcast. It's a popular beer. It's a popular beer. It's a New England style.
So our hazy IPA, and so that one has sold really well. Hazy
Mike: because Chuck Ritter's kind of hazy?
Greg: Are we gonna, are we gonna blame that on Bobby Tuttle? Honestly, it was uh, it was just a good concept. We wanted to do that to support the podcast.
Mike: Will there be an objective Arte beer down the road? We haven't
Greg: talked about
Mike: it, but we could.
What would that taste like? Would it be bitter or would it be sweet? Okay, my, this is my, this is the question I want to ask everybody that comes on to the podcast. This is gonna be my, my, my stock question. Where were you? When you wanted to quit, but you didn't. Physically, mentally, where were you? I
Greg: feel like, just like you shared in your podcast, it happens often.
I feel, even now, I feel overwhelmed with Hatchet, because I don't feel like I can do all the things I either want or need to do to make sure I'm performing at the best level for the people around me. But one of the stories that sticks out in particular was in Ranger School. I remember being in Florida phase, and I had the 240 on the Swamp Mission.
I remember we got out of the boats, and we got onto what was semi, like, stable ground. You take three steps, and I was waist deep in a swamp. And I just remember having that, fuck this moment, if you will. Like, I just didn't care. So like, and you know this, but you're not allowed to eat when you're not supposed to, you're not supposed to be breaking down MREs.
You're supposed to leave them sealed until it's time to eat, and then you get 15 minutes to eat, or whatever it is. And I remember just like, ranger, uh, instructor walking by. I'm here with the 240, up to the 240, where I have it in the swamp. And I just pull out a Pop Tart from my, my rucksack, and I just start eating it, not caring at all.
Mike (2): Ranger, where'd you get a Pop Tart?
Greg: He didn't say anything luckily, and I'm pretty sure he saw me, but, uh, that was my, like, I was ready to quit. And so I was like, you know what, it, none of this, none of this matters. Just take it, essentially take a tactical pause, eat your Pop Tart. And move on.
Mike: Breathe.
Breathe and eat a Pop Tart. I'm gonna, I think I want that on my to Breathe and eat a Pop
Greg: Tart. And that was enough for me to regain my composure and just keep, keep contributing, right? Because that's essentially what Ranger School is all about. It's like, how do you help the people around you at the end of the day?
And so, that was what it took for me to be like, alright, cool, I'm back in the game, um, I'll carry this thing around, I'll set it up wherever you want me to, I'll shoot blanks all day. But that was, for whatever reason, that, that memory sticks out vividly on, when I was like, I'm ready to quit. I'm ready to be done with this.
Mike: And the lessons you carry with you for the rest of your life? Keep a Pop Tart in your pocket.
Greg: I'm not big into Pop Tarts now, but for whatever reason, because you know how it is. Everybody's an MRE chef in ranger school. Mixing stuff and holding on to certain things. Maddest
Mike: I've ever been was the two weeks after ranger school.
I ate everything that wasn't strapped down or being eaten by somebody
Greg: else.
Mike: No, but that's appropriate, right? Like, you know, you get that gut.
Greg: Yeah. At the end of Florida phase, when they open up the Gator Lounge and you can go in there, I saw guys eat whole pies by themselves more than once a day. And so, like, you go through this whole period of almost like 45 to 50 days of essentially starving to a certain extent.
And then the floodgates open, you can eat whatever you want. And so then within like a week, people just pack it on and it doesn't go anywhere else, but your gut. And so we always just called it your, your ranger, baby.
Mike: And exercise and exit. Yeah. Yeah. That's a lesson. Hey, well, great. Any, any. Final last words for our audience about, uh, where we're going on this journey with, uh, Arte?
Greg: Just that I hope that, uh, it's something people find value in, authenticity. I hope that sharing some of our own failures and challenges are going to benefit them. Uh, and I hope they never feel as though that it's judgmental at the end of the day. I really hope that. We share these things as authentically, genuinely, uh, and transparently as possible so that way they leave with things that they can apply to their own lives and feel like they're not alone in whatever challenge they might be faced with.
Mike: Yeah, no one wants to be alone. A great part of this, this journey this mission is to, uh, let's connect folks who are on a journey together. Like they're, you're on, everybody's on their own journey, but like if we could be on the journey with someone else or at least know that we're not going through this by ourselves or the only one going through this thing, then I think that helps a lot.
Greg: I think some of it's a healthy sense of competition. Like, I saw that in SF. Like, yeah, you're competing with every other team, but you'd never do anything to cut their legs out from under them or stab them in the back. But still there's this healthy sense of both camaraderie, but also I'm trying to be better than everybody else or at least the best that I can possibly be.
And so I hope we're able to cultivate that kind of culture in what we're doing here as well.
Mike: Well, thanks. Thanks for your time. Thanks for sharing your story. Hey, thanks for joining me in this conversation with Greg Walker. Please like and share this episode and subscribe to the podcast and the Objective R.
I. T. newsletter. You can also follow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X. Join us next time when our guest will be Sergeant Major Chuck Ritter. Until then, find your equilibrium and be the fulcrum.