In this powerhouse of an episode, Mike (Who has fabulous hair) sits down with Ayman Kafel (Who has an intimidating shaved head)—a U.S. combat veteran, seasoned law enforcement officer, and editor-in-chief of Objective Arete—to discuss the mental health crisis facing veterans and first responders. A respected writer for the Havoc Journal and co-founder of Project Sapient, Ayman shares powerful insights into PTSD, suicidal ideation, and the internal battles many in uniform face long after the mission ends.
Episode #6: Combat Veteran Ayman Kafel on Mental Health, Stoicism, and Breaking the Stigma for Veterans and First Responders
In this powerhouse of an episode, Mike (Who has fabulous hair) sits down with Ayman Kafel (Who has an intimidating shaved head)—a U.S. combat veteran, seasoned law enforcement officer, and editor-in-chief of Objective Arete—to discuss the mental health crisis facing veterans and first responders. A respected writer for the Havoc Journal and co-founder of Project Sapient, Ayman shares powerful insights into PTSD, suicidal ideation, and the internal battles many in uniform face long after the mission ends.
From his time in Iraq to the front lines of American streets, Ayman opens up about the emotional toll of service and how stoic philosophy, self-awareness, and peer support have played key roles in his healing journey. This episode offers a raw, honest conversation about breaking the stigma around mental health, promoting resilience, and providing essential resources for those who serve.
Whether you're a veteran, police officer, mental health advocate, or someone seeking inspiration, this episode delivers a deep, meaningful dialogue you won’t want to miss.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Overview
00:28 Project Sapient: Origins and Mission
01:28 Mental Health Challenges in Law Enforcement
03:05 Comparing Stress: Soldier vs. Cop
04:42 The Reality of Domestic Disputes
06:30 Suicide by Cop and Mental Health Issues
15:19 The Importance of Self-Awareness
15:30 Finding Purpose and Helping Others
18:30 Coping Mechanisms and Stoic Philosophy
22:11 The Role of Ego in Self-Development
26:31 Overcoming Dark Times During COVID
30:53 Conclusion and Contact Information
Follow Ayman:
IG: https://www.instagram.com/projectsapient/
FB: https://www.facebook.com/alexanderaljenub
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ayman-kafel-msc-919b4322/
Objective Arete: https://objectivearete.com/team/ayman-kafel/
Note:
23:25 to 23:30 we call the book The Bruce Lee Code by Thomas Lee The Bruce Lee Way. If you look for the book it's the Bruce Lee Code.
Please support our show! Please help us continue our mission and produce more shows that will impact society in positive ways! The link below allows for small donation support. All proceeds go towards the mission.
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#projectsapient #aymankafel #leadership #stress #mentalhealth #mentalperformance #leo #military #lawenforcement #objectivearete #arete #excellence #embraceadversity #livewithpurpose #pursueexcellence
Ayman: Recording in progress.
Mike: We're good. Great. I'm in great to have you on the podcast today. Um, you're doing a lot of things, man. You're like, you know, you got this day job of being a cop and you're also, uh, you write for the havoc journal. You're the editor now for the, uh, objective RTA. Uh, Blog and sites and uh, you're doing this thing called project sapient.
Talk to me about project sapient. What is that?
Ayman: Yeah, project sapient. Actually when when me and my buddy Pete Also in law enforcement. We we we were we've been going back and forth back during kovat and even before then just the Issues that we've been seeing within the law enforcement community and and he wasn't military But I was and also, you know with with the PTSD, TBI, and, and the whole, uh, toxic exposure.
So we, we, we've been seeing a lot of issues going on and especially during COVID, uh, kind of the falling apart of the mental health, uh, help for veterans and law enforcement and first responders. So we decided to put together a podcast and really have a frank discussion basically about the issues that no one really.
Uh, wants to talk about and we're like, you know what now this, this needs to be out there. This needs to be addressed and talked about.
Mike: Yeah, that's great. I, cause I think you're, there's two things that come to mind for me. First is the stigma that comes with any kind of discussion of, I'm having stress issues, or I'm really, you know, wigging out when I have these triggers, these things that happen.
And so, having a place, a forum, an outlet where people can come together and discuss those things, that's vitally important. And then the second thing is just the knowledge of like, what is that site? Do people know that Project Sapient is even out there? And how do they reach you? And, and what are the other resources?
So, uh, good on you. And Pete for doing that, because I think those are two things that are drastically needed as we take on these issues of, uh, PTS and stress and, and potentially suicidal, uh, things that are hitting our, our law enforcement officers and soldiers across the board. So thank you for doing that.
Yeah, no,
Ayman: it's, it's, it's something, it's something that really, uh, needs to be address, especially the, the suicide epidemic. Uh, within the veteran community and, and the first responding community. I mean, it's massive. I mean, I mean, suicide, uh, we, we have more deaths through suicide than we do than enemy fire or, or even, you know, uh, on the job and first responders.
So suicide is truly a huge, huge, uh, issue within the community that again, it's like not talked about. I mean, it's, it's, you, you hear about it, but not really, it's not at the forefront
Mike: or you, you hear about it when we lose someone and it was all, what a shame. And could we have done something about that?
Yeah. Um, So, yeah, thanks for doing that. All right. So you've, you've been a soldier and you're a law and currently a law enforcement officer, which, which one's more stressful.
Ayman: So, I think over the years I've had time to reflect on which one is more stressful. I think definitely, I'd say being a cop is more stressful because, part of it is because I wear that badge and gun on my hip 24 7.
Right? Versus when we went overseas, went overseas, did our missions, came back home, and then we were done, right? It was, it was, we were away from that environment. Um, law enforcement, you are still in that community. Um, I mean, there are, there are houses and there are places I drive by where some heavy duty shit happened.
And you remember it right away. Um, you know, like there's a couple of guys at my job that got into this fierce firefight, um, at work. And they tell me to this day, every time they drive by that area, their heart kind of skips a beat, you know, because it's, it's there all the time. So, so we can never get away from it.
Because we're always patrolling the same areas.
Mike: Yeah, that's a great point. I hadn't even thought about that. To me, you know, combat generally was these long periods of boredom or you're planning and then, and then if you're, if you're in the shit, then okay, then there's these heightened and immensely intense.
Uh, periods of just everything going on, it's, it could be everything from like the first 20 minutes of saving private Ryan to something that's just over and done like that. Um, but being a cop, I mean, you roll into some domestic dispute, as I understand it, you never know what you're going to get into, right?
Or some call for some neighbors are having a dispute or whatever's going on. I mean, you. And, and you're the only guys wearing uniforms.
Ayman: Yeah. I
Mike: mean, they're like, like everybody's an insurgent, no one's wearing a uniform.
Ayman: Well, that, well, the thing is though, yeah, I mean, no one ever calls a cop when they're having a good day, right?
It's, it's never, we, we always deal with people on their worst day or what they perceive to be their worst day of their life. And you know, you, yeah, domestics are some of the messiest calls we go to because they are highly emotional, uh, sometimes. Most times alcohol and or drugs are involved. You have, you know, so they're already not thinking clearly.
Um, so that's where violence occurs. That's where, unfortunately, most cops end up getting killed, uh, right at the threshold of that door or approaching that door because, you know, You know, for whatever reason, that individual on the other side of the door has it in their head that they're going to jail and it's over and that's it.
And, and, you know, yeah, that's, that's the reality of the job. The domestics are some of the messiest calls that we go to. And then you have the unknowns of, Oh, I got this suspicious person in my neighborhood. I don't know what's going on, why he or she are here. You know, we get there and it turns, it goes one of two ways.
It's either nothing or gets extremely violent real quickly, you know? So, so that, that. I mean, law enforcement, I found, you know, it's sort of like, you know, uh, overseas where it's 90 percent boredom and 10 percent action, you know, and, and that 10 percent action, if you're not on your A game, that's, that's where you, you lose it, you lose that, that fight essentially.
Mike: How much of the, uh, the shootouts we see between law enforcement and people, you know, civilians, whatever we're going to call them, whether they're criminals or just people that are having a bad day, like you said, how much of that is the death by cop, the suicide by cop kind of set up? I mean, I, it seems like there's some of that going on, or is it just the people that are willing to.
To drop, uh, in on a cop and start shooting the place up. They just, they don't really have
Ayman: much respect for life in the first place. Uh, it's, it's a mix. I mean, I mean, so there's always been these statistics out there that most people don't really know about, but you know, or don't research enough, you know, so on a daily basis, uh, police interact, uh, across the country, close to a million people a day, you know, there's across the country.
Um, and within that number, Less than 0000001 percent something like that is involved with with any sort of deadly force or anything like that. So it's a very, very, very, very small percentage of our interactions with the public. Then you break it down even further. Yeah, suicide by cop is a big part of it because that's what they want.
They want that. They want their significant other or whomever they're angry out. angry at in the world. They want them to know how angry they are, therefore they're gonna get themselves killed by a cop. Um, it, it, it does happen. Actually, just this morning I was doing a debrief. We were watching this video, uh, police uh, video where it was a messy domestic, police show up, the guy runs at them uh, with a knife and in his running he says, I have no intentions to live.
So that's a suicide by cop, right? That's, that's, the guy had it in his head. I mean, very few times we get involved where it's a legit, you know, bad guy who we have a shootout with. It's a, it's a rare occasion. Most of the time it's mental health issue or some sort of domestic that went sideways.
Mike: Enabled by drug and alcohol.
Ayman: Yes, yeah, exactly.
Mike: Wow. Yeah, I can only imagine. I mean, so, um, I, I carry, I have a permit. Um, anytime I'm out at night and if I get pulled over by a cop because I was speeding or whatever, man, the first thing I do is I turn on that dome light. Hands are on the dash. Anybody that's with me put your hands on the dash.
I am trying to make it as easy as possible for the cop because when they run my plates, they're going to see I got a permit.
Ayman: Yeah,
Mike: right. And I don't want anybody on edge. Yeah, I can only imagine what it's like for a cop that's that's rolling up on a traffic stop or anything. And so many unknowns, especially if you're by yourself.
Why the hell do we have cops by themselves? Why do we not have if I were in charge? There'd be buddy teams of cops. You'd never see a cop by himself.
Ayman: Yeah, I mean, most places, uh, I mean, cities, obviously, like, I work in a city, and, uh, and most cities do have, like, two man cars type, type ordeal, but it's, it's not the norm in, you know, suburbia, um, where some, some really violent stuff happens.
It's because mostly it's manpower issues, budgeting, whatever it might be. In the end, it's all about money. That, that's all it is when it comes to manpower. It's all about money and what the cities and towns can afford. Uh, personally, yeah, I'd love every cup to have two people in every car, you know, two officers in every car that way working together, you know, with a partner.
It's like a force multiplier.
Mike: It just makes sense. I mean, in the military, you don't, you don't send anybody out by themselves. It's a minimum two people all the time.
Ayman: Yeah.
Mike: It just makes sense, but I, I don't know. To me, it's like, I get it. It's a, it's a resourcing issue. It's a capacity issue. Uh, two cops in each, each in their own car can cover more area than, than two cops in one car.
Yeah. Got it. Um, but I just think that it's we're at the point now where, you know, there's tradeoffs, life's all about tradeoffs and life's about balance in my that's my jam balance, right? And so it's never either or it's both ends. So we have to do both. Protect the people and protect the cops. And, uh, I just think that going to minimum two people together with the beat cops are in a car that would, that would help so much.
Ayman: Yeah. I mean, I'm fortunate to work in a city where your backup is 30 seconds out. It's, it's, it's not that. You know, there's no waiting really, you know, it's, it's, but those 30 seconds do, if you're in a useful force, that was 30 seconds will feel like an eternity.
Mike: Yeah. Right. I mean, a lot can happen in 30 seconds.
Ayman: Yeah. Yeah. So, so, I mean, that's the difference between working in a city and working in a small town, I mean, small town, if you're back, it was 45 minutes away. Good luck. You know, it's, it's that, that part sucks.
Mike: Alright, so your bio, you were in Iraq in 2005, I was in Iraq in 2005, um, I remember Iraq in 2005, um, there were a lot of people getting blown up, and we did not have the best equipment.
This is the era of Donald Rumsfeld, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had.
Ayman: Yeah.
Mike: Um, 20, 000 road miles of combat, uh, patrols, that's a lot of driving in a place where people are getting blown up every day. What did you come away from that experience with that you carry with you today?
Ayman: Uh, played a game, basically played a game with death. Every single day. It's, uh, it's funny. There's actually one of our medics said that, you know, because of the amount of miles we would do out there, um, they're like, you know what this medic specific man told me, he's like, man, you play a game with death every time you step outside that wire, because it's a game of chess.
Just if it's your time, it's your time, you know, because you just never know. And that's the thing I kind of took away is, is, you know, the famous Marcus Aurelius, um, You know, a quote or phrase of Momento Mori, you know, you could die at any minute at any day. And that's, that's pretty much what I took out of that experience.
And if you think about it, you know, I was in my early twenties, you know, like I was still this young dude, right? And you are given this enormous responsibility because I speak Arabic. Also, I'm, I'm fluent in Arabic. And so my missions were very Unique in that sense where there's a reason why I was out and about mostly because my battalion commander was, uh, never liked sitting behind a desk.
So he always wanted to be out and about, but, uh, but it was, it, it really kind of, it really taught me a lot about. Kind of embracing the moment or, you know, living in the moment, uh, when, you know, even to this day.
Mike: Were you exposed to Stoicism in Marcus Aurelius writings before that? Or is that something that you got into later and you saw the connection?
Ayman: Later, you know, as you get older and wiser, you start reading a lot more. I mean, I, I, I've always been an avid reader since I was a little kid, but Kind of discovered stoicism, uh, much later in life, especially after war and, you know, dealing with PTSD and, and TBI and the various, uh, issues that come up after war.
Um, you start reading a lot of these things and in my head, I'm like, man, this crap was talked about thousands of years ago. Why isn't it? Really talked about, like, you know, to me, the Stoics of back then, even to this day, their teachings and their, their philosophies resonate.
Mike: Absolutely. I mean, okay, so the first thing I would do is I'd make sure that there was always two cops in the car together.
The second thing I would do, I would start teaching Stoic philosophy, Stoicism in grade school.
Ayman: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean, because there's so much wisdom, uh, in all these leaders, philosophers way back when and, you know, you just kind of sit and you're like, yeah, this, you know, Marcus Aurelius addressed this, you know, ego is the enemy or, you know, the obstacle is the way and, you know, Seneca, you know, when he says, uh, you're, you know, yeah.
You suffer more in imagination than in reality. It's like, man, it's like they cover mental health. They cover personal well being. They cover everything.
Mike: No, that's, that's exactly right. And I mean, the basics of, um, you can only control what you can control, right? And the few things, the few things that you can control are your reactions to what's going on around you.
Exactly. And your choices. Yeah,
Ayman: exactly. That's it. Exactly. And so, so that's where I really, um, You know, even to this day, I dive deep into the philosophical views, uh, with mental health and, and, and PTS and various other where I'm trying, you know, it's, it's, it's kind of this, this building block for me, uh, as I'm getting, you know, later in the years of trying, well, not so much trying to understand, but accepting, and then that's pretty much, you know, where I'm at right now.
Mike: Yeah. Um, okay. So stoic philosophy. What other coping mechanisms have you discovered over time to help you or to help you help other people in dealing
Ayman: with stress? I find that purpose, helping others find purpose. Um, I think with our community, uh, military and law enforcement first responders, you know, our purpose is service before self.
You know, that's just kind of something we got ingrained in some point in early in our lives. And that kind of Translated for us, you know, you know the way we are so what I do now. I mean, you know, like I'm I sit at the board of directors for 22 Mohawks helping veterans, um, you know, raising awareness for suicide and, uh, Suicide awareness for first responders and veterans and and you know giving them a new purpose like Giving them a service dog or you know emotional support dog where now they found this purpose of oh I got to take care of this animal.
There's my new purpose now, you know something as simple as that Kind of changes a perspe a veteran's negative perspective or even a first responders Negative perspective and outlook on life. It's given them this little puppy, you know, or the service dog where they're like Oh, this is awesome. I now have purpose again
Mike: Yeah, that's great.
I mean, Chuck Ritter and I talk about this both from a professional and a personal standpoint, and that's the mission statement. And we know from the military that a mission statement is essentially a statement of task. What am I doing and purpose? Why do I do it? And. We work, you know, I've worked with companies all the time and that's seems like that would be an obvious thing You would have at every level.
What am I doing? Why am I doing it? That's your your guide, right? If you don't know what to do go back to the mission statement
Ayman: Yeah,
Mike: and that we know as well that the purpose part of that is more important than the task part Yeah, and yeah, man helping helping people to figure out what their personal reason for being is a reason for doing That's huge.
Ayman: And it is, and all it could take is just a little little nudge, a little guidance. And you know, it's amazing to see, you know, within our community, the minute you give them that ability or the minute you give them that, uh, that little nudge, they just go on to do great things because that's all they needed is just somebody or something or some way to tell them that, no, you're not broken.
You know, no, you're not this, no, you're not that, you know, learn acceptance, gratitude. And, you know, Charlie, Mike, basically, you know, continue mission like let's, you know, let's get going.
Mike: Yeah, right on. Um, cool. So Arte, as we know, is this basically a quest to achieve your greatest potential. And as Chuck and Greg are defining it and using it in Objective Arte, it's across multiple domains.
What's something you're working on right now to help you achieve what you would consider a higher potential or your highest potential in some area?
Ayman: So I've been really looking into self awareness. Um, you know, to really be aware of where I am in the moment is something that I've been working on, and it's, it's something that I didn't realize how hard it is to actually do, uh, when it comes to self-awareness, uh, I mean, I've been reading a lot of philosophy, uh, behind it, uh, behind this, this, this idea of self-awareness and it's.
It's something that, that I'm taking, you know, one step at a time, um, and learning more about what it means to be self aware of, you know, where you're at in life and where, you know, what are your goals for this year or for this time period, for this week. And, you know, am I aware enough to know that. Am I achieving those goals?
You know, am I, am I disconnected from goals and, and self awareness? I have a friend of mine, a close friend of mine, uh, Chuck, I believe, I don't think Chuck knows who he is, but, you know, he, he always, you know, he's one of those that I talk to, you know, deep philosophy about, and, and, you know, one of the things he, he would tell me is, you know, a way to get to self awareness is you need to, you know, Observe the observer, observe, right?
So you got to kind of remove yourself kind of like this third out of body type experience where you're looking at yourself, but also at the same time, you're looking at the individual, looking at yourself. So it's, it's one of those like different layers of self awareness to get to, and it's not easy and it's, it's, it's not easy at all, but it's a, it's a challenge I love taking on.
And, uh, and. You know, gaining the traction of self awareness really is, uh, is changing a lot of my perspective on a lot of things.
Mike: Well, are you familiar with the concept of Johari window?
Ayman: Yes.
Mike: Yes. I think that's a good one too for that because for me the biggest gap in most people's self awareness is the blind spot.
Yes. The thing that they can't see in themselves and what's beautiful about it is there's probably somebody out there who can see. Our blind spots can see the things that are triggering us, can see the things that we do or don't do in certain times, or how we show up in certain times. And so for me, a huge piece of self awareness is finding someone you can trust to tell you how you're showing up.
Ayman: Yeah.
Mike: Right? Like, hey Mike, that was really a dick move back there, um, when you
Ayman: did that. Well, that's the thing. Yeah, that's it. I think there's that saying, like, you know. Be the friend that you're supposed to be, not this, you know, yeah, I'm, I'm your, I'm your close friend, but I'm going to tell you what you want to hear.
Now I'm going to tell you what you don't want to hear because that will help you grow
Mike: what you need to hear.
Ayman: Yeah, exactly. Exactly what you need to hear. And that's, that's part of this self awareness too, where I have, you know, battle buddies. That will check me as I, I will check them, you know, whether it's Chuck, you, uh, you know, Gabe, other guys and within the community where we check each other, like, Hey, you know, that's kind of messed up, dude, like, or Hey, think about it like this, you know, and, and it's just, we, we guide each other.
Mike: Nice. Nice. I think everybody needs to have that.
Ayman: Yeah.
Mike: Um, I've got a great friend, Mike Longo, who likes to say that, uh, you are the average of the five people you hang out with most. Very true. And whether it's you're trying to get better at whatever you're doing, um, you need those people to be an inspiration, to be a guide, to bounce ideas off of, to trust, but also to tell you when you're messing up.
Ayman: Yes.
Mike: And
Ayman: that's critical. The biggest part I found with self awareness is your ego. Your ego is it man. It's it's I'm gonna swear a little it's a motherfucker, right? It's it's like holy shit, you know Because you don't realize how much your ego plays a role in your self awareness or self development Because your ego in reality is the threat That stops you from growth, right?
If that makes sense, uh, you know, like within the military community, even in SWAT or whatever I'm doing, you know, we always say, Hey, leave your ego at the door because, you know, we all are here to train, to better ourselves, to do this, to do that. And you can tell when your ego is getting in the way of that progress.
And your ego is one of those things that will do everything it can to sabotage what you're trying to achieve.
Mike: I've seen it the other way too, though. I work with a lot of executives who one of their greatest failings is they don't give themselves enough credit for all the things they've accomplished or done.
And that's a, that's an ego issue where they don't have a healthy enough ego. It's balanced, right? You can't have such a. Inflated view of yourself and your past accomplishments that it's going to be an obstacle to what you're trying to accomplish next But you also have to appreciate everything you've done that's helped you get to where you are And know the value in that and know your own personal value and that's where a lot of people who struggle That's part of the problem.
Ayman: Well, that's that's the part of the ego that sabotages you right in ego will keep you down whether for you know, whether you're Achieving so many great things. No, your ego will sabotage you, be like, no, you, you're, you're still fucked up. You know, it doesn't, you don't, it doesn't help you realize that you're actually doing good.
So again, it's like, like you said, it's that balance. It's, it's like trying to find that right balance so you can silence your ego enough to be, have that self, self awareness to realize that, Oh yeah, you know what, you know, all these years, all this hard work I've done. Yeah, I mean, I've made something of myself, you know, or I've made something of this organization or, you know, and, and.
Your ego then if your ego will just, you know, kind of creep up on you and be like, yeah, but you didn't do enough really. Nah, you didn't do this. Ah, you messed up on this. But in reality, we're human, right? There's going to be failures. There's going to be trials. There's going to be issues. And, you know, just Whether it's the so, uh, you know, from stoicism or whatever, you know, when the obstacle is in the way it becomes the way and you just go, you just push on and your ego is that obstacle in the way that will stop that growth, you know, so that that's the way I've, I've really been really working on that aspect of awareness.
Mike: And thank God, Ryan Holiday. Fell into stoic wisdom and stoic philosophy is something to write about because yeah, that guy's given us three amazing well, he's a lot of good books, but uh That's that's a great book. Conspiracy is another good one that has nothing to do with stoic philosophy. If you're looking for a good read, yeah, man,
Ayman: well, that's the thing.
So I mean, you know, before I discovered Ryan Holiday, like I was reading meditations, I was reading five, you know, the book of five rings when I was heavy in the martial arts, I still am, you know, Bruce Lee's Dao Jikundo and, you know, Miyamoto Musashi's teaching. So I kind of figured Ryan Holiday did a great job in making it it all together in a package that is easy to find, you know, versus going to all these different sources and books, you kind of have an easier way of looking at everything.
Mike: Yeah. Um, another great book, uh, Thomas Lee, no relation to Bruce Lee, but, uh, the Bruce Lee way. Okay. And he's just recently, well, last year, I think Thomas moved to your area of the world. Uh, but really great book.
Ayman: Okay.
Mike: Um,
Ayman: to look at that.
Mike: Thank you. Know the Bruce Lee story, but you probably don't know it all, or you've may forgotten some of it.
Um, cool. Hey, last question. Um, this is my, my ask everybody question. And it's, uh, talk to us about a time when you really felt like quitting, but you didn't, where were you physically and mentally?
Ayman: Um, actually, it was, uh, during COVID. I mean, shit really went south, right? Um, I didn't have access to the typical, uh, mental health and everything else that I would need.
Um, it, it, Went to a dark place in my life back then, um, and it took a, uh, it took some bad incident to really get me to wake up and be like, Oh, like, all right, I've, I'm, I'm hitting rock bottom. I got to get out of it. And the whole idea of quitting has never, ever been in my vocabulary. Um. And I kind of reminded myself that, you know, I reminded myself that, no, I don't quit.
I'm, I'm, I'm the, I'm the asshole that if I'm getting smoked, I have a smile on my face and everyone else is looking at me and they're like, dude, why are you smiling? This sucks. I'm like, oh, embrace the suck, you know, like it is what it is. So, you know, I, at that time period, I, you know, everything just. You know how it is like when mental, sometimes just everything hits you at once, everything, you know, and that cup kind of runneth over, so to speak, you know, where I've learned, uh, from Dr.
Kate Pate, uh, you know, she helped Chuck, she's very, very great, uh, neurophysiologist, uh, and, and great, uh, uh, friend to the special forces community, the military community, and even first responder community where she's, you know, she described, you know, stress. Uh, an individual's capacity to handle stress.
Every single one of us have a different amount. You know, some of us pint, pint glass size and that's it. You know, you put a little bit, we're done. Others, you know, uh, have built this resilience over a lifetime where it's like a gallon to two gallons, where for me, I, I believe like, you know, with all my past childhood and everything, yes, I've developed this huge amount of resilience, but it got to the point where it was way too much.
I wasn't emptying the cup as I usually do. I was just. bottling it all up. Just letting it consume me. So in 2020, I got into a really dark place and it got really bad and I ended up really shaking it off and taking my, uh, self more, more seriously in terms of, um, You know, my mental health and, and my, uh, capacity to be able to, uh, have more self awareness, uh, on, you know, how I'm feeling at this moment, what am I doing at this moment, what am I doing about it?
And that's where I really took into writing because that's when I first started writing for Havoc Journal. Um, I got connected to Charlie from a mutual writer that, uh, would contribute every once in a while and submitted my first two, three, uh, pieces and Just, they, you know, Havoc Journal loved the writing and Mike Warnock, you know, him being the editor in chief for Havoc did a great job in kind of helping me find my voice, uh, through writing, uh, did a phenomenal job.
And to this day, you know, I send Mike things and we go back and forth and make, basically, you know, he, he helped me, Havoc Journal helped me a lot, more than I think Charlie knows, um, in terms of, you know, what it did for me, what writing did for me. And, you know, I, I've never been the type to write in a journal or anything like that.
I was, you know, this macho superman guy. I don't write in fucking journals. Come on. You're like, who, who does that? You know? So, so, you know, I, I took that on, you know, so I took on multiple platforms, different ways, uh, to include creating Project Sapient, uh, creating ways of really, um, um, healing.
Mike: Yeah, that's great. I mean, I'm hearing a bunch of different lessons there. Some of the things we've already talked about that self awareness, um, time to reflect the quiet. We talked to, uh, Joe McCormick, uh, you know, the brief lab guy and how important quiet is and the reflection that you can gain out of that and the thinking that you can do in that.
And, um, That's so important, but it's also important to have someone who can help you be grounded, make sense of it. And so we get back to that idea, the, the five people you surround yourself with. Um, oh, man, I, I, I appreciate you sharing all that with us. How can people get ahold of you or get to the.
Project Sapient, or where's the best places to find you?
Ayman: Yeah, I mean, I'm all over. I'm on Instagram, LinkedIn, just look up Project Sapient podcast. I'm all over there, LinkedIn. It's my name. I'm in Capelle. You can find me there. I post all kinds of things. And then obviously, All your listening platforms, uh, we're everywhere.
Spotify, Apple, um, Google play, whatever your listening platform and even YouTube. So just type in Project Sapient and you'll come up to the website. You'll, uh, you'll come up to all kinds of other things. And there's things that I'm working on in the background for Project Sapient. Um, not, not that I'm going to announce just yet because it's, it's going to be great things that are for 2025.
I think for Project Sapient, it's going to really kick things off.
Mike: Can you tease it out a little bit more for the, uh, the Objective Arte viewers? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ayman: So, uh, you'll see on the website there's gonna be some, uh, training coming up, uh, that involves around self awareness. And it's gonna involve a lot of, uh, Very smart people smarter than me that I've connected with, um, that are going to bring some cutting edge, we'll call cutting edge, uh, self awareness, uh, devices that is going to really, that is going to really revolutionize how you think, how you train and how you go about life.
Awesome.
Mike: Well, uh, let's, let's, uh, count on lots of people connecting with you through this podcast episode, uh, we're on a mission, not only to achieve our greatest potential, but to, uh, as Chuck Ritter would say, I'm, I'm out to become the Joe Rogan with hair.
Ayman: Well, with the beard too. Come on now. You can't, you can't, you can't say it without that beard.
Mike: Yeah, well, you know, as I get older. I never could grow a beard when I was younger, when you could actually see the damn thing. And now, now it's all gray, it's like.
Ayman: Yeah, right.
Mike: That's why I don't have a goatee. When I, when I had a goatee, when I first got out of the army. You can see the mustache part of it, but you couldn't see it.
So people are like, Oh, nice mustache until they got closer. And they're like, Oh, wait, that's a goatee. That's a goatee.
Ayman: Oh, that's awesome.
Mike: Uh, anyway, I'm in, thank you so much for your time. This has been awesome. Uh, and, uh, reach out to I'm in project sapient and like, and follow. Objective arte. We got great things coming up.
Lots to discuss with our future guests, uh, and getting to that great potential in all these domains. So thanks a lot.
Ayman: Yeah, you're welcome, man.
Mike: All right.